So I'm unable to post with ease on my regular board
Since I am unable to keep some sort of connection going with a website and board I normally frequent, I am posting here, instead. I wrote the following in response to being judged "judgemental" and was writing to a friend who has pointed out some valid arguments as to why some of us would choose not to socialize with an active adulterer.
(see below)
begin email ".....If I know someone is cheating on their spouse, doing and or selling hard drugs, beating their children, embezzling from their employer, running some kind of government benefits/welfare/social security scam, or shoplifting pork chops, then I will (as Goodie says so well) suddenly be very busy." end email
and my response:
D'jever notice, while Jesus walked among the prostitutes, lepers and other sinners (those poor lepers, lumped in with the rest of us because of a horrible disease) and encouraged others to do so... it wasn't because he was quiet and condoned their behaviour. Yes, love the sinner, hate the sin... but ask for redemption and follow through. "Go thou and sin no more." AND... the closer the sin got to your own home or temple, the less patience the Lord has/had for sinning shennanigans. Ok, yeah, that's it in a nutshell.
I just don't think I have a whole lot in common with folks who behave this way anymore. I mean, as a person who had no judgement AT ALL - and not a whole lot of common sense, either... my Higher Power was awfully glad I became JUDGEMENTAL.
While it was pointed out that the other behaviours are illegal, as opposed to the "small time" (!!!) elastic morals of adultery or any of the above folks I'm SURE to be too busy to talk to... um... am I supposed to castigate them every time they call? Well, folks that do that kind of stuff don't really want to hear what I have to say about it and that cuts those relationships very short, since selfish people don't want to feel "judged". Am I supposed to be an understanding ear? Jesus walked among sinners easily, because although He experienced temptation like the rest of us, His perfection made him immune. Personally, I don't want any of that crap to rub off on me or any of my family. That's too much drama for me. I cashed in my "E Ride Ticket" a long time ago.
After YEARS in Alcoholics Anonymous, I've got tons of experience (my own included) with people who try to finagle their way around doing the next right thing. That's one thing AA and AlAnon is very good at - drawing boundaries. If my friend came to me and said (and she did), "I'm thinking of the inoutinout with my neighbor and he's up to the game." I would still go back to the tried and true, "That's fucked up thinking.... Have you not seen "Brokeback Mountain"?; "Fatal Attraction"?; "Unfaithful"?; "The Woman in Red"? "Ode to Billie Joe"? (ok, not so much...) This NEVER has a good ending. EVER. THINK of your family. Here's the number to a good therapist. Don't do this."
Even if she came to me and said...."Well, he beats me.", or "He has a mistress", or WHATEVER.... SAME RESPONSE. Then, after I'd handed her my therapist's number, I'd be helping her find the biggest shark of a divorce lawyer possible. And I'd be calling her every day from then on.
If they're in the Program (a program of rigorous honesty) I'd tell them to work the steps on the problem RIGHT NOW (or you know what?.... you're going to wind up drinking over this because your thinking is screwed up, and you know it.) There's a reason successful sober people advise "Stick with the winners...stick with the people in the light." When you're looking to be deceitful, you seek lesser companions. They won't have an audience with me.
When a friend expressed her "non"approval of her friend's actions with "the one who got away"... well, there's a reason she didn't find out the minute her friend got home from the very first tryst. SHE WAS ASHAMED, and she knew her friend would be disappointed in her. Maybe if her friend had had enough guts to sacrifice the friendship for the greater good by saying, "Here's help (call a therapist, your pastor, your MOM); promise me you won't do anything for at least a week and see how you feel then; you must be going through something and this is very difficult but seems like a good idea.... and while I LOVE YOU - if you do this, I don't know if I can look at you the same way anymore. I love you; don't do this." Maybe if the stakes were higher, the consequences greater (than even having your dh hurt so terribly) the whole tragedy could have been avoided and a real opportunity for growth would have happened. But no - the poster was afraid she'd lose her "friend". Wimp. What if the woman in crisis really wanted her to talk her out of it? And really, I'm not singling anyone out - that goes for anyone who'd let this secret, devastating nugget just roll off them in the name of being a "good friend".
Can you imagine sitting down to dinner with your favorite tax evader? What are you going to talk about? "Um, how's that workin' for ya' ?" "Gee, I see you got your kid into private school with all that extra cash." "What happens when you have to go to JAIL?"
...Ok, let's go for something that's NOT illegal.
Your girlfriend is a gambler. She's gambled away the family's 401K plan... she's depleted the savings accounts and her kid's college fund. She's borrowed money from everyone she knows - and repayment is nowhere in sight. While she hangs out at the track, and since she's exhausted every babysitter and friend... she leaves the kids in the car. Without her dh's knowledge, she's taken out a second AND a third mortgage on the house. She's dying for you to have them all over for dinner and make nice, but you know she's going to ask you to lie for her or lend her some more money. She's a sick woman and she's suffering, but she can't wait to sneak out and play Pai Gow at the backroom of some hole bar downtown. Not as bad as an adulterous affair? ...Or worse?
As with drug addiction, alcoholism, and other self destructive behaviours - adultery included... I'll get you the help you need if you want to change or stop - but if you are going to continue down that slippery slope... I'm not going to volunteer to watch. Or aid. Or enable. My life (and my family's well being) no longer revolves around the drama inherent in these behaviours. Goodbye. And you may just find me inviting your ex, the kids and his NEW wife over for dinner. For the sake of continuity for the children.
Why is it wrong to want to associate with people who walk the same path as you and your family? I really hesitated bringing up anything religious or Program oriented - because you really don't have to have religion or the Program TO DO THE NEXT RIGHT THING. Is sitting idly by while a friend breaks her vows doing her a favor if she makes it your business by telling you about it? Unless they've already made up their mind to do the deed - a good friend may very well circumvent the destruction of a family by just saying, "Be a MAN - or A WOMAN. Get HELP. Work on it. Or you may just find yourself losing everything."
OH! ...and do I have a "Fatal Attraction" story about my friend's errant husband, his girlfriend, their breakup; and his return to the marriage and how all our friends handled it? You bet...... Beware ...the TIRE IRON!!!!
(see below)
begin email ".....If I know someone is cheating on their spouse, doing and or selling hard drugs, beating their children, embezzling from their employer, running some kind of government benefits/welfare/social security scam, or shoplifting pork chops, then I will (as Goodie says so well) suddenly be very busy." end email
and my response:
D'jever notice, while Jesus walked among the prostitutes, lepers and other sinners (those poor lepers, lumped in with the rest of us because of a horrible disease) and encouraged others to do so... it wasn't because he was quiet and condoned their behaviour. Yes, love the sinner, hate the sin... but ask for redemption and follow through. "Go thou and sin no more." AND... the closer the sin got to your own home or temple, the less patience the Lord has/had for sinning shennanigans. Ok, yeah, that's it in a nutshell.
I just don't think I have a whole lot in common with folks who behave this way anymore. I mean, as a person who had no judgement AT ALL - and not a whole lot of common sense, either... my Higher Power was awfully glad I became JUDGEMENTAL.
While it was pointed out that the other behaviours are illegal, as opposed to the "small time" (!!!) elastic morals of adultery or any of the above folks I'm SURE to be too busy to talk to... um... am I supposed to castigate them every time they call? Well, folks that do that kind of stuff don't really want to hear what I have to say about it and that cuts those relationships very short, since selfish people don't want to feel "judged". Am I supposed to be an understanding ear? Jesus walked among sinners easily, because although He experienced temptation like the rest of us, His perfection made him immune. Personally, I don't want any of that crap to rub off on me or any of my family. That's too much drama for me. I cashed in my "E Ride Ticket" a long time ago.
After YEARS in Alcoholics Anonymous, I've got tons of experience (my own included) with people who try to finagle their way around doing the next right thing. That's one thing AA and AlAnon is very good at - drawing boundaries. If my friend came to me and said (and she did), "I'm thinking of the inoutinout with my neighbor and he's up to the game." I would still go back to the tried and true, "That's fucked up thinking.... Have you not seen "Brokeback Mountain"?; "Fatal Attraction"?; "Unfaithful"?; "The Woman in Red"? "Ode to Billie Joe"? (ok, not so much...) This NEVER has a good ending. EVER. THINK of your family. Here's the number to a good therapist. Don't do this."
Even if she came to me and said...."Well, he beats me.", or "He has a mistress", or WHATEVER.... SAME RESPONSE. Then, after I'd handed her my therapist's number, I'd be helping her find the biggest shark of a divorce lawyer possible. And I'd be calling her every day from then on.
If they're in the Program (a program of rigorous honesty) I'd tell them to work the steps on the problem RIGHT NOW (or you know what?.... you're going to wind up drinking over this because your thinking is screwed up, and you know it.) There's a reason successful sober people advise "Stick with the winners...stick with the people in the light." When you're looking to be deceitful, you seek lesser companions. They won't have an audience with me.
When a friend expressed her "non"approval of her friend's actions with "the one who got away"... well, there's a reason she didn't find out the minute her friend got home from the very first tryst. SHE WAS ASHAMED, and she knew her friend would be disappointed in her. Maybe if her friend had had enough guts to sacrifice the friendship for the greater good by saying, "Here's help (call a therapist, your pastor, your MOM); promise me you won't do anything for at least a week and see how you feel then; you must be going through something and this is very difficult but seems like a good idea.... and while I LOVE YOU - if you do this, I don't know if I can look at you the same way anymore. I love you; don't do this." Maybe if the stakes were higher, the consequences greater (than even having your dh hurt so terribly) the whole tragedy could have been avoided and a real opportunity for growth would have happened. But no - the poster was afraid she'd lose her "friend". Wimp. What if the woman in crisis really wanted her to talk her out of it? And really, I'm not singling anyone out - that goes for anyone who'd let this secret, devastating nugget just roll off them in the name of being a "good friend".
Can you imagine sitting down to dinner with your favorite tax evader? What are you going to talk about? "Um, how's that workin' for ya' ?" "Gee, I see you got your kid into private school with all that extra cash." "What happens when you have to go to JAIL?"
...Ok, let's go for something that's NOT illegal.
Your girlfriend is a gambler. She's gambled away the family's 401K plan... she's depleted the savings accounts and her kid's college fund. She's borrowed money from everyone she knows - and repayment is nowhere in sight. While she hangs out at the track, and since she's exhausted every babysitter and friend... she leaves the kids in the car. Without her dh's knowledge, she's taken out a second AND a third mortgage on the house. She's dying for you to have them all over for dinner and make nice, but you know she's going to ask you to lie for her or lend her some more money. She's a sick woman and she's suffering, but she can't wait to sneak out and play Pai Gow at the backroom of some hole bar downtown. Not as bad as an adulterous affair? ...Or worse?
As with drug addiction, alcoholism, and other self destructive behaviours - adultery included... I'll get you the help you need if you want to change or stop - but if you are going to continue down that slippery slope... I'm not going to volunteer to watch. Or aid. Or enable. My life (and my family's well being) no longer revolves around the drama inherent in these behaviours. Goodbye. And you may just find me inviting your ex, the kids and his NEW wife over for dinner. For the sake of continuity for the children.
Why is it wrong to want to associate with people who walk the same path as you and your family? I really hesitated bringing up anything religious or Program oriented - because you really don't have to have religion or the Program TO DO THE NEXT RIGHT THING. Is sitting idly by while a friend breaks her vows doing her a favor if she makes it your business by telling you about it? Unless they've already made up their mind to do the deed - a good friend may very well circumvent the destruction of a family by just saying, "Be a MAN - or A WOMAN. Get HELP. Work on it. Or you may just find yourself losing everything."
OH! ...and do I have a "Fatal Attraction" story about my friend's errant husband, his girlfriend, their breakup; and his return to the marriage and how all our friends handled it? You bet...... Beware ...the TIRE IRON!!!!
Momazon (or Goodie) ... putting the "mental" in "judgemental"...
posted by momazon at
7:39 PM
1 Comments:
Linked to you from my site because of this post; hope you don't mind.... :)
Elaine in AL
messygoat.com
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